Here is the list of factually inaccurate statements in the first half ("Lenhart's Modeling Process") of Tim Snell's refutation as they appeared on 4/13/08. These statements are presented with page references from the hard copy ("Original") of the refutation that Tim Snell mailed out prior to the internet version. There are some differences. Where there are differences, the statement as fact from the "Original" is presented immediately following the statement from the internet version. So far, I've found one statement that occurs in the internet that is not in the "Original". I've put the headings of the different sections from the refutation in parentheses in order to help you find these statements in the internet version.
These statements are factually incorrect for a variety of reasons. However, the overwhelming majority of these statements of fact are incorrect because I did go through the process that he said I DIDN'T go through...AND I did not PRESENT this process in "Modeling God". It is the difference between the HOW and the WHY.
I think the majority of Tim Snell's misunderstanding is that he wants "Modeling God" to tell him HOW I determined the non-contradictory worldview...I don't explain this in my book. "Modeling God" documents the WHY. The HOW occurred over 14 years and involved listening to God and others in order to get revelation (GRACE). It involved reading the Bible cover-to-cover 14 times. It involved finding all the usages of the KEY words and looking at the definition, context, etc.
THEN the process presented in "Modeling God" was used to determine if it was truth or not. This process is powerful BECAUSE it results in giving the WHY...it explains WHY the interpretation is truth.
When someone asks you HOW to do something, you tell them WHAT to do and give them the reason WHY it is true. If you do recount the HOW, it is short. You don't tell them a ten minute story for EACH attempt.
In the first chapter of "Modeling God" I talk about HOW people found out that when grapes were crushed and allowed to stand, the juice turned into wine. Sometimes it happened and sometimes it didn't. Then they understood WHY...the skin of the grape had yeast on it and THAT caused the juice to ferment. The response was to intentionally add yeast instead of keep crushing and hope for the best.
HOW did they find out? It wasn't something they did intentionally. This is akin to revelation. It took several attempts and refinement.
WHY did it happen? They determined the cause by thinking.
Imagine asking someone HOW to make wine and getting an hour long answer explaining the first time they crushed grapes, the background, the circumstances, the result...and then hearing the second time...then the third time...
Trust me, most people would eventually ask the person to just cut to the result...most people don't want to relive each and every experience. Notice the explanation of WHY would look "backwards"...you assert the answer and then give an explanation back to when you didn't know.
"Modeling God" is NOT an explanation of the HOW. It is an explanation of the WHY. "Modeling God" explains WHY the model is non-contradictory. If you have specific questions on the HOW and you are interested in hearing 14 years of explanation, looking at the word studies and supporting scriptures....please do something Tim Snell refuses to do: ask me.
Page 3
1. He uses his background in chemistry to derive principles which then serve as the basic mechanisms for building the theological model he presents.
2. Similar to other "quasi-Christian" theological offerings such as Mormonism or ancient Gnosticism, Lenhart's theology presents a fundamentally different god than the God of the Bible, and offers a completely non-Biblical theological perspective for sin and God's gift of salvation.
Page 4
3. This assertion underlies all of Lenhart's book and leads to many of his erroneous conclusions.
4. When combined with the principle of non-contradiction, Lenhart says that a person who grows, welcomes any contradiction in his or her "model" because it exposes a flaw, and invites them to grow and learn more.
Page 6 "Exposing Lenhart's Modeling Process"
5. The problem with the process Lenhart uses to build his model is not in what he knows, but in what he doesn't know.
6. There are simply some key things he doesn't understand or know about, which he fails to bring to building a model of theology.
7. Furthermore, Lenhart misapplies his "model building" principles.
8. Although these principles apply nicely to static and unchanging realities (such as chemicals, elements or atoms) they do not apply so easily to dynamic realities (such as language, concepts, and words) which can change over time, and from one context of communication to the next.
Page 7 ("1. Can you Say...")
9. When Lenhart brings his modeling process over from chemistry and begins to apply it to theology, he makes a fundamental error.
Page 8
10. The problem is, because he doesn't understand how linguistics works, he constantly speaks on the top rung of the ladder of abstraction, but thinks he is speaking on the bottom rung.
11. As a result, his entire application of his modeling principles (i.e. contrastive thinking) for the purpose of logically identifying contradictions becomes far too loose for the modeling process he is attempting to do.
(Original #11: As a result, his entire application of his modeling principles (i.e. contrastive thinking) in order to logically identify contradictions becomes far too loose for the modeling process he is attempting to do.)
12. Instead of trying to encompass all usages of the word, he does get down to a lower rung definition and gives a definition that is tight - but it is tight only as it relates to certain uses of the word, not all the uses of the word.
13. Yet this is exactly what Lenhart does with language.
14. He makes the assumption that a specific word in one specific context behaves and means exactly the same thing regardless of the presence of other words, the situation being addressed, or other contextual issues.
15. Lenhart's modeling process simply ignores this dynamic nature of language and ends up giving faulty definitions to key words at key times, resulting in a modeling process filled with half-truths or even outright untruths.
Page 9
16. While his effort to have his theological model be non-contradictory is laudable, in the end Lenhart's failure to understand and incorporate the dynamic nature of language and how it is used leads him to build a model that is simply flawed from the get-go.
("2. Can you Say...")
17. Lenhart runs into problems here as well.
18. God has ceased to be a living being.
19. God not only isn't more than the sum of the words used to describe his characteristics - according to Lenhart, God has been depersonalized completely!
20. Such a notion would be laughable if it weren't so absolutely troubling...and blasphemous.
21. What Lenhart has done, intentionally or unintentionally, is depersonalize and degrade God into something far less than the Biblical God has revealed Himself to be.
22. Throughout the book one finds that Lenhart depersonalizes God fairly consistently.
Page 10
23. Did you notice how Lenhart equated knowing the facts about God with having an intimate relationship with God?
24. This is something he does throughout the book.
25. If you do that, Lenhart claims, that is all it takes to grow closer to God.
26. What Lenhart has done is he has equated getting one's theology correct with knowing God personally.
27. He essentially elevated knowing the facts about God, and made that sufficient and equivalent to knowing God on a personal level.
28. He has reduced a relationship to an equation and denigrated a dynamic living growing love affair between Almighty God and his people to a process of gathering the right facts about an impersonal deity, nothing more.
Page 11
29. In the end, Lenhart's entire approach smacks of something akin to a modern day version of Gnosticism, in which the gathering of facts and intellectual knowledge becomes the equivalent to knowing God personally.
30. In the end, Lenhart's process of building a theological model is not only flawed, it is built with a view toward a goal that is something far less than the goal God had when he (sic) revealed Himself to us.
31. That goal was (and continues to be) relationship, not merely a conglomeration of disembodied character qualities.
("3. Isn't Our Theology...")
32. One of the incredible feats Lenhart has pulled off is writing a 230 page "Christian" theology book that uses very little scripture to develop his theology at all.
33. In fact, one would be hard pressed to find the equivalent of fifteen pages of scripture referenced in the entire book!
34. This is yet another fatal flaw in Lenhart's modeling process.
35. He has not appealed to the primary source (i.e. the Bible) as the primary source of information for his model.
36. In other words, the informational input to this model does not come from God's Word, at least not very much.
37. He then develops almost his entire model via human deduction.
(Original #37: He then develops his entire model via human deduction.)
38. Except for an occasional "proof text", Lenhart simply doesn't look much to scripture.
39. In the end, what one is left with is a lot of Lenhart, not a lot of Bible.
40. What Lenhart has done is equivalent to a scientist writing a paper on the properties of uranium without ever having done (or appealing to) any in-depth research on uranium in any way!
41. Yet, this is Lenhart's primary approach when it comes to building a theological model!!
(Original #41: Yet, this is Lenhart's entire approach when it comes to building a theological model!!)
Page 12
42. Lenhart never does this.
43. He isn't interested in comparing his concepts to scripture.
44. He instead only sees if they match up to HIS "definitions," (sic) most of which are not derived from an in-depth study of scripture to begin with, but rather come from human deduction.
45. A theological model that relies heavily on human deduction, as Lenhart's does, while it may end up being internally consistent, will almost always end up being inconsistent with the one source of authority that really matters: God's inspired Word.
46. As smart as Lenhart is, the fact that his conclusions (as we will see) simply fly in the face of what the Bible itself states to be true shows just how flawed his process is.
47. The result, for Lenhart, is a model that gets increasingly further away from scripture as it is built.
Page 13 ("4. Can We Get...")
48. Because Lenhart doesn't rely much at all on the Bible as a source, sound hermeneutics are simply not employed in the development of his model.
49. It is another fatal flaw.
50. Without the tools of hermeneutics, Lenhart falls back to human deduction and simply checks to see if his "definition" of any new words contradicts his already arrived at definitions.
51. In other words, he doesn't go back to scripture, and do an in-depth analysis of scripture and all God's Word to give the definition.
52. In the end, he consistently misdefines, misapplies, and misstates highly important Biblical truths about key concepts.
53. The result isn't Biblical theology at all.
54. It is a self-contained non-contradictory conceptualization of God straight out of Lenhart's mind.
55. There was no in-depth analysis of scripture using proper hermeneutics.
56. There are no in depth (sic) word studies done.
57. Rather the definitions were postulated and then stated to be true simply because Lenhart claims them to be true!
58. This is a repeated pattern in the book.
59. Again and again, key words are defined haphazardly and rely mostly - sometimes soley - upon Lenhart's assertion that such definitions are true.
60. In the end, Lenhart's approach is both ignorant and arrogant given the important responsibility he has assumed in developing a theological model to help people come to know God better.
Page 14
61. You'll not only note that the modeling process isn't sound, you'll also see how Lenhart comes to some fundamentally flawed theological conclusions.
62. He used a flawed process in arriving at his definition.
63. Lenhart projects his limited human knowledge back on God.
(Original #63: Lenhart projects his limited human knowledge back on God, stating that the best way to define God is to say that God is a set of principles.)
(Not in Original) 63a. He then moves toward his definition, a definition built on his own deduction instead of on revelation.
64. He has postulated that the very essence and substance of who God is, is nothing more than an idea or a concept, not a living eternal, infinite supreme being.
65. This may allow one to build an internally consistent model, however, it simply won't be Biblical in the end.
66. It certainly isn't "bottom rung" in any sense of Lenhart's ladder of abstraction concept.
67. Once you agree to his initial definitions (and his assertion that they are "bottom rung"), it becomes very hard to "think outside the box" Lenhart has given, for you are relying almost entirely on human deduction versus Biblical input.
68. Unfortunately, because neither the scripture nor hermeneutics are utilized much, the end result is nothing but vain imaginations.
Page 15
69. In the end, Lenhart has built his theological model almost entirely off human deduction rather than on God's revelation as seen most fully in Christ Jesus.
("5. Does Lenhart...")
70. And Lenhart does this repeatedly.
71. Again, he doesn't go back to scripture and do any detailed study.
72. He doesn't allow scripture to flesh out the breadth or depth of what is revealed by God about his (sic) righteousness.
73. Lenhart just glibly defines it and insists that his definition captures all of who God is when we speak of his (sic) righteousness.
74. This "backward theology" is seen most easily in Lenhart's reliance on deduction.
75. In other words, if God (and how He relates to mankind) is contained in Lenhart's definition, then all Lenhart has to do is deduce how God must act based on his definition.
76. He doesn't have to go back to scripture.
77. He can just insist that everything fit his nice tight non-contradictory definition - even though it will inevitably be flawed because it isn't drawn from scripture - but projected back upon God out of Lenhart's mind.
Page 16
78. By not going back to the scripture, Lenhart is left insisting that God must fit his finite definitions, even though God's embodiment of attributes such as justice, righteousness, etc, are things we can grasp at and speak to in a limited fashion, but not contain - for God is infinite.
79. Lenhart's theology is always flowing in the wrong direction.
("6. Is Non-Contradiction...")
80. As such, Lenhart's reliance upon non-contradiction alone as a basis to determine truth is simply flawed both logically and Biblically.
Page 17
81. Naturalism - the belief that all of reality is contained by nature, is a worldview that contains immense amounts of detailed beliefs that tie together pretty flawlessly.
82. It is a second level check for truth...not a first level as Lenhart believes.
83. Throughout his modeling process, Lenhart fails to follow this basic construct.
84. The result is that he relies on non-contradiction itself to be sufficient for determining truth, rather than realizing that there is an entire process as it relates to developing theology that must transpire first.
("A Summary of Why..."
85. The very principles and process Lenhart uses to develop his theological model are fundamentally inadequate.
86. They are inadequate, not because the principles he uses are false, but because there are some principles in theological modeling process of which Lenhart is simply not aware.
Page 18
87. As a result, he seeks to apply principles that are true as they relate to static objects (which would have been true in his chemistry background) but which are not true as they relate to the dynamic realities of language which will change in its nuance from use to use.
88. Even more fundamental, Lenhart fails to go back to the scripture as a primary source, instead relying heavily on human deduction through each and every stage of his model building.
89. When he does go to scripture, he doesn't seem to comprehend the depth of work that must be done with hermeneutics to properly and intelligently speak to Biblically revealed truths.
90. Lacking this, he simply cannot arrive at "bottom rung" theological definitions.
91. If all this weren't bad enough, Lenhart uses backwards theology, insisting God must fit his limited conceptualization, building his model by projecting his own ideas back upon God rather than allowing God to appropriately define and reveal his (sic) infinite and perfect nature through scripture...
92. The result is Lenhart has set up a modeling process that is destined to fail when applied to developing Biblical theology.
93. He can't truly get to the "bottom rung" in terms of adequate definitions.
94. He doesn't understand the nature of linguistics...and misapplies his principles as it relates to language and words.
95. He isn't getting the appropriate Biblical "input" he needs to make his model Biblical.
96. And he inappropriately relies on non-contradiction to be the final arbiter of truth.
Click The Rebuttal to return.
11 comments:
dkixoye,
First of all, thank you for taking the time to read this and comment.
Second, and I can't stress this enough, thank you for posing your thoughts as a question!!!!!
It shows that you are truly about understanding!
You ASK how I can say that Tim's statement is factually incorrect...the portion that makes it factually incorrect is that he says I don't understand or know about some simple key things that I fail to bring to building a model.
First, let me state that I don't know all. But that is not what is stated.
Second, the factually incorrect part is there is no "key things" that I failed to bring to the building of the model. It would take pages to teach a course on modeling...suffice to say, since the publishing of my rebuttal I have been showing that the things Tim thinks I left out are all based on man-made tradition.
Understand, his point is that I'm not teaching the Word of God, but a man-made doctrine...yet, every response from him is based on man-made doctrine. He has told people that I am leading their kids to hell...yet if one of us is leading people to hell and I can explain doctrine without bringing in man-made tradition and he can't...the sequel deals in great detail how Calvinism is essentially Mormonism...it is built on man-made doctrine.
Furthermore on modeling building:
My rebuttal is an attempt to show the difference between my process of building a model and Tim's. Realize, Tim is building a model. Also, his process HAS to be better than mine in order to prove mine is wrong.
I believe he fails because of his process. A flawed process would see an accurate process as wrong.
As for the endorsement on the back of the book, I will take that up with the endorser. It can be changed and ought to be changed if it is factually incorrect. I know she wanted to keep the country private because she thought that stating the specific country may put peoples' lives in danger today.
Perhaps she is still reaching out to these people in secret and now your post has put their lives in danger...I will find out.
The number one technique to modeling is to first consider you may be wrong. Tim doesn't do this...and it brings greater judgment on him every time he is wrong. You attempted to do this by asking questions.
The conclusion of the rebuttal was for Tim to get a group of pastors together to meet with me...and for Tim to show step-by-step his technique for interpreting Ephesians 2:8-9 to result in "unmerited favor" without resorting to man-made tradition. When he can do this, then he will be teaching me a key modeling technique I don't have.
It is amazing how EVERY TIME damage is done it could have been prevented by first asking one's self "What if I'm wrong?"
By the way, if you know the endorser well, then you know that they believed they would be going back to do this full time one day...which is another reason for keeping the country a secret. I know it would have been inaccurate to say "traveling missionary" or "full-time missionary".
Just so we are clear...
Ephesians 2:8-9 deals with salvation...people going to Heaven or hell.
I have repeatedly explained these passages using God given modeling techniques that result in a doctrine that agrees with the rest of the Bible.
Tim's interpretation results in contradictions with the rest of the Bible and he's unwilling to demonstrate his modeling technique.
I truly appreciate his refutation for all the reasons I have stated in the posts on the blog. This is not false humility...it is unthinkable for me to judge someone who has made me better and been the answer to a 10+ year prayer.
I feel bad for him because it appears he has no one who can confront him in love (for Tim's benefit). It appears Tim has no one who is able to tell him he is wrong...if he does and that person doesn't think he is wrong, then the judgment will probably fall on that person.
Bottomline: I don't know Tim's situation. I just know that when I was wrong I had someone who confronted me and I confessed and repented to Tim. I actually have seven people who have committed to the responsibility of doing this. I actually have taken correction from anywhere when it is valid.
Tim hasn't admitted he has been wrong about anything.
By the way, I will also confirm with the endorser that they "believe" this and change it if they "hope" this instead.
How horrible is it to post an endorsement and then claim that a reader is putting lives of people in jeopardy for questioning the factual accuracy of the title given to the endorser. Accuracy would have been to state Missionary to the middle east 1850 - 1859 (or whatever years apply). I am trying my level best to remove the name of the country where she was a missionary so as to limit the effects of my slip. Anyone who knows this person might have mentioned this information so a note of "for protection of individuals, name of country intentionally kept unstated". I am appalled that you invite questions and then whip out such a consequence for having asked a question. If you know how to erase the name of the country in question please do so.
I will pray about posting any further questions.
dkixoye
I didn't know for sure and I'm quick to consider I'm wrong. This is the first, simple, and primary key to modeling accurately.
The next key is to follow that first key and try to consider all the possibilities. I posed possibilities and the only one I could think of that would make your friend accurate was the one I posed. If there are others, I'm open to hear. Again, I don't know if that is the case, I didn't say it was...I said I would check.
Here is the original post with the country taken out, because I still think you raise good points and people can learn.
dkixoye wrote:
Hello - I read your book and am now perusing your site. Your telling of the story of Pastor Tim and yourself is interesting indeed. When looking over your list of "Factually Incorrect Statements from Refutation (part 1)" you listed in Chapter 6 number 6,
"There are simply some key things he doesn't understand or know about, which he fails to bring to building a model of theology"
How could you say that this is factually incorrect? Are you stating that know all of the key things there are to know about regarding building this model? By the time I got to the list of factually incorrect statements it begs the question; Why are these factually incorrect? Some of the quotations from your refutation seem like you are trying to refute a refutation with as big a number of inaccuracies (so as to give weight to your point of view) with out actually refuting the point. You also list a friend of mine on the back cover as a "Missionary to the Middle East" which is factually incorrect. She was a missionary to (country identity removed) and is not now. Claiming her to be a former Missionary to the Middle East would have been accurate, but why would you have listed her in such a way unless you were trying to give her endorsement of your book more weight?
Just some thoughts on Factual Innacuracies
Dkixoye
Realize, you brought up a point about my book when none of this is mentioned on the blog, refutation, rebuttal, specific post, etc.
Then you ended your original post by asking this question:
"Claiming her to be a former Missionary to the Middle East would have been accurate, but why would you have listed her in such a way unless you were trying to give her endorsement of your book more weight?"
I attempted to give you a possible answer to the question you asked...how your friend could be accurate. I put the endorsement on the back of the book for the quote...not the endorser's title, so I don't care if it gets changed, especially if it isn't accurate. I stated this...
Your friend, along with each endorser, wrote out their own quote and title. Why did you ask me about what your friend wrote? Especially if she is a friend, why didn't you ask her?
Rather than project on you, I will just ask: What was your objective in bringing up the endorsement?
The endorsement seemed to me to be inaccurate. Along with the voluminous number of "factual inaccuracies" seemed to denote a dismissal of Pastor Tim's refutation by giving as large a number of these without qualifying what about each is inaccurate. In either case it seemed to me to display an attempt to, in one case give weight to an endorsement that was inaccurate and in the other case give weight to your rebuttal by number rather than by substantive comment on each "factual inaccuracy".
dkixoye
Thanks for the explanation.
The rebuttal is an attempt to explain the logical inaccuracies of Tim's refutation.
Tim wanted my feedback.
I wrote to Tim that I was going to give him a list of factual inaccuracies, then opinion inaccuracies, and finally, logical inaccuracies.
He'd let me know why he thought these statements were accurate so I could better understand the building blocks of his argument.
After I sent the factual inaccuracies, he wrote that he would look at them...and then he posted the refutation on the web before we discussed the list and went through the rest of the process. Then he told me he wanted my rebuttal...my explanation of the flaws in his logic.
The rebuttal is the main proof why Tim's refutation is flawed. The factual inaccuracies are ancillary and the link is away from the rebuttal. I've had people say that the factual inaccuracies ought to be dealt with first because Tim's logic is built on those statements.
I wrote a global explanation (HOW vs. WHY) of why the overwhelming majority of the statements are factually inaccurate, but I am willing to explain each statement's flaw. It took a long time to go over each statement.
There are A LOT of statements that are inaccurate that I couldn't put on those two lists because Tim qualified the statement or it was part of his opinion...which technically I can't prove wrong because I don't know if he truly believes what he states is his opinion...it doesn't matter if I think his opinion is wrong.
I wish Tim had written his statements like you did...as questions or with qualifiers.
I'm also impressed that you are willing to have a dialogue and MORE IMPRESSIVELY that you are answering the questions.
My biggest reason to dismiss Tim's refutation is that he won't answer questions that I ask in order to understand him better.
Nobody is perfect. We all make mistakes. To value (Judge) people on lack of mistakes is not Biblical.
I believe (and have written extensively about this) that God values us on our profitability...bearing fruit...ability to repair...which only occurs when we let God flow through us.
To that end, you ought to sleep well tonight knowing you have demonstrated the characteristics that EVEN the sinful world recognizes as "Christian".
You are an excellent person who seems to understand that God expects us to be more excellent than the world...not less excellent.
Please feel free to contact me privately through e-mail if you have any questions at all.
Thank you...
dk,
I got an e-mail and she would like it to say "former missionary".
I will be seeing my publisher in four weeks to make this and other "yearly" updates.
Thank you for your help!
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